Ishe Smith Tells All: Mayweather, Becoming World Champion & The Business of Boxing

Welcome To Vegas Circle

Welcome to Vegas Circle Podcast with your hosts, Paki and Chris. We are people who are passionate about business, success, and culture. And this is our platform to showcase the people in our city who are making it happen. And today we got just that, man. We've got one of the most accomplished fighters I'm a big fan of, was actually the first boxer in Vegas to win a world championship. He's turned discipline, resilience into success, both inside and outside the ring. So let's welcome to the circle, Mr. Ishay Sugarshay Smith.

Oh man, thanks for having me, man. Big fan of you, brother. Big fan of you, my man.

Bullied Into Boxing At Eight

Thanks. I appreciate it.

So let's first start with the boxing game, man. Just the history of kind of your foundation of everything. I think you started what age did you get into boxing? Eight years old.

Wow. Bullied. Bullied in school. That's what In Vegas, right? In Vegas, yep. I went to a school on the east side. Okay. That's where it started being bullied. My mom's friend was working with boxers, and he just took me in my room and was just showing me how to protect myself. And that became like an everyday thing. And then that became going to the gym. And I hated boxing at first because it took up so much of my time as a kid. You know, sure. In our era, we just wanted to play. Of course. Wanted to go outside and play. Of course. Summertimes wanted to play, but boxing just is a year-round sport and it just took up a lot of time. And I think when it was like then when I started fighting, and I was like, oh man, you know, I started, I fought, I fell in love with the game. When I start actually sparring and having fights, I I really uh yeah, that's when it it changed for me. Collect.

Very interesting because you're because that's kind of a backstory for a lot of professional fighters, right? That they had this kind of experience that got them into that moment. But there is the one moment to your point where it goes from just being like defending myself to now this is my sport. Like you know, when does that like shift happen? Or when didn't it happen for you to say like that? Now it's not about that anymore.

Watching Legends Make It Real

I think when you, you know, when I was growing up, I was in the gym. I would see like Mike Tyson, Azumi Nelson, Terry Norris, Riddick Bow. I would see like all these champions and Jeff Mayweather and Roger Mayweather, who are were here, came out. Legends, legends here. And when they're constantly, you know, you watching these guys and you're in the gym sparring, you're just like, man, you know, and then these guys tell you, man, if you keep working hard, one day you're gonna be champ. And I was only just a little kid sucking up all the energy. So I would go home and get in my mirror and just try to mimic what they was doing in the gym. And so I think that's when it changed for me. And then I would see those guys fight on TV. And I was like, man, that can be me one day. And I would be like, man, I want to fight on the strip one day. I want to do this. Yeah, I want to do this, I want to do that. So it became more of like wanting to hang out and be and with my friends and be a kid. It became more of like I wanted to do this. And then I grew up with the just in a single parent household. I only had a mother, so I had to learn every about being a man and everything. I had to learn it on the fly just from being at the gym and hanging around those guys. Yeah.

Do you see, especially being in Vegas, man? So you get the the mecca of having boxing here is just unreal. Like you just said, the Maywellers, I mean everybody, Tyson, everybody's here.

Olympic Trials Then A Hard Detour

Did you first sign with Golden Boy? Is that what was your first?

My first promoter was a local promoter here called Guilty Boxing. Okay, I'm not familiar with that. They were putting on just local club shows. Okay. And they what age? What age you came out? I was a pro I was a pretty much a grown man and I was in my twenties. Okay. So I tried out for the I was two fights away from making the Olympic team in 96.

Ooh, really.

And I was I'll end up losing the semifinals to Zab Judo by four points. Zab. Went on when also was in the Hall of Nevada Boxing Hall of Fame. Zab, shout out to Zab. Zab's good brother, man. And then I didn't turn pro right away because I in 19, it was 96, so I wanted to be a kid. I was like, man, I haven't done nothing. I've dedicated my life to this sport for like nine years. I was like 17, just about to turn 18. I was like, man, I want to be a kid. I want to hang out. I want to talk to girls finally. I'm in high school. I'm like, man, I want to chill, man. So I took I took a few years off and I just wanted to be a kid, man. And that's what I did. I was hanging out and kicking it. And then I went to senior digital with my friends and was shooting dice, and somebody robbed me out there, stuck a gun to my head in Vegas. Oh shit, okay. Yeah, stuck a gun to my head, man. And that changed my whole life, my whole outlook. I was like, man, I don't need to be in these streets. I was like, it ain't nothing out here. I don't need nothing out here. And so I just so I had a couple amateur fights then. And after that, I didn't even try out for the 2000 Olympics. I was like, I don't want to do this no more. I just want to turn pro. And I turned pro, I think, in 2000, summer 2000, before I think the Olympics was completed. I turned pro, man. And that's where it began. And then a couple fights with Roy Jones's people. And then I came back home and signed with the local promoter here, Guilty Boxing. Putting on every uh monthly shows at the Orleans. Okay. Kind of interesting.

Like take that time off. Come on, prime years, right? Like I think it's like prime development time. I would think, you know, I'm not obviously I'm not the best shape, but I would think you go from like 17 to that 20 range, then you're taking that time off. That's like a pretty good kind of a kid though.

You know, I was still like a kid, and I hadn't experienced if I would have turned pro-din, that's what and that's what scared me more than anything, is I would have turned pro dead in and I hadn't experienced life, I would have been one of those fighters that got money and just experienced all got it too fast and maybe got into the wrong things. Yeah. I was glad I was able to take that time off and experience what life really was about. I wasn't out doing drugs and none of that stuff, but I was out having a couple drinks every once in a while and kicking it a lot, hanging out, just being in places I shouldn't be. And I was like, man, this ain't the life I want to live, man.

But pick it back up though for like a physical standpoint. Like, do you forget, like restart that? Or is it like you're kind of like almost like riding a bike?

No, it's like riding a bike, man. Like once you once you learn, once you do something for that long, like I can go in the gym right now and hit the speed back. Like it's like nothing. Like once you do something. Like that muscle memory. Yeah, once you do something for so long, it's just it's like a second, second nature to you. It's like just it's like in the back of your mind, logged in. You'll never forget it.

But like for

Turning Pro With Few Guardrails

boxing, right? Like kind of what we were talking about offline earlier with our kids do, right? With soccer, and I know your girls play fag football too, right? Yeah. So boxing is not for play. Like that's the that's the one sport that is definitely not for play. Like, how do you like how does it work for you to go through the motions and then become a professional? Like, how do you get like your you know what I mean? Like, how does that work to get signed where they're like, okay, he's good enough to be a professional?

I don't know what the restrictions are now, but I know coming up, it was no restrictions. It is, especially places like down south. There's not a whole lot of knowledge restrictions there. I could take you and him and and train train you guys for a couple weeks, get maybe a couple months, and say, hey, let's get a fight and get a fight and stick you right in there. I've seen it. I did not know that. I've seen it with my own eyes happen. They may be a little stricter today, I but I doubt it because there's no regulations on how you can turn pro. You don't really need a background, you don't really need to have a fight. You just need to know how to carry yourself. I've seen some people that shouldn't even be in the ring and they still get in there. So it's not really no licensing per se. Back when I was coming up, like I say, a little bit, be a little bit more stricter today, but not I I doubt it because there's no license, there's no committee that oversees that kind of stuff. It's not like play in the NFL or basketball, how you gotta go through all these channels. Boxing, you don't need to go through those channels. Wow. That's a good thing. I knew people to quit, you know, quit college sports and like play college football and then they quit and then they start boxing. We had a guy here in Vegas that did that. He went to play JUCO college. He had never boxed before. He he became he trained a little bit, his dad taught him on the box, ended up fighting for the heavyweight world championship of the world, and then he just ended up not cashing in. Oh wow. Yeah, but he had never boxed before. So I I think if you know, boxing is like if you got the dedication, you know, you you can be something, but it just takes a lot. Yeah, it takes a lot because like you say, you can't play boxing at all. You can't play so you know.

Well, it's really basically just me saying, I'm pro now, and if I can get a fight and I want to log that on my record, that's gonna be logged as me a pro record.

Yes. Okay, well. It's just the same thing, like you see these guys fighting Jake Paul, and you see they're going on his record, like these basketball players and all of that. Yeah, for sure. They're going to be a few. They're going on his record because it doesn't take much to get licensed as a professional boxer. He may be like, do you think Jake Paul is like 14 and 2 or something like that? And he may only fought like two or three real boxers. He's fighting UFC guys, he's fighting all kinds of guys, because there's really no licensing to turn somebody as a professional boxer.

And what's the reason like an exhibition fight then? Because I see like, you know, yeah, you know, Fillet may go do an exhibition fight or something like that. I've always seen these popping up, but those don't go on the record.

No, those don't count.

So then you basically you classify it yourself how you want it.

Yeah, you classify yourself as uh as an exhibition by interesting.

So just backing up, because I do want to go back to the Jake Paul stuff with Netflix and everything, but how does it

Promoters Contracts And Real Pay

work, man? So you get signed and then you have a boxing promoter. The whole process, how does that can you kind of walk through how that works, man? Especially for the young fighters, right? Like you get whatever, maybe an upfront almost like the music industry, but that's you gotta pay your trainers, you gotta pay the gym fees. Like, what does that kind of look like behind the scenes when you get signed with the boxing promoter?

It depends. It number one, it depends on it. So when I signed with the people, when I came out and I signed with Roy Jones's, well, I didn't sign with them, I was just doing a fight-by-fight basis. I got absolutely nothing. Whereas to fight, like nothing for the fight. I got paid to fight. Got it. But I didn't get no other. I didn't get nothing. So back then it was boxing has changed so much. Back then everything was so cheap, and I everything was so cheap. Like I would get like 2,000 maybe for four rounds, and I still had to pay people. But I remember my contract here. So when I when I got here, I signed, and I remember I was getting a thousand for four, fifteen hundred for six, two thousand for eight, and five thousand for ten rounds. That's what my contract stated.

Damn.

And I got no upfront money. Just I had the promise to to fight. And I was gonna get fights and maybe get out of there. So my career, I got it out of the mud. I started strictly like a video game. Like if you ever play like any boxing game and you start at the lowest of the lowest, that's literally what you did. That even though I went to the Olympic trials, I was known. I had taken second place in the nationals, I was a bronze medalist, junior Olympic. I got it straight out of the mud. I started like a video game, no bonus, no nothing. So I was overperforming my contract, but I was also going in the camp with like De La Hoya and Shane Mosley. I was going to camp with all these pros. And I was giving them really good work, Oscar Dela Hoya. So I went to Fernando Vargas' camp and he was getting ready for De La Hoya. And I was doing good in there, and he was asking me questions, and I was like, man, you don't remember me. I was in the Olympic trials with you in '96. He was like, I he's like, I don't, man. He's like, you really good. So he was asking me questions about who I was signed with, where I was at. And I told him, I was like, I'm just with a local nothing promoter. So he he went on HBO and he said, you know, this guy, he said, he said, I'm gonna talk about you on HBO. And I was like, he was doing a via satellite uh interview. So I was like, man, that dude ain't gonna say nothing. So I was watching the fights in my room, and yeah, he did. And after that, I I blew up. Like all these promoters were calling and me. Especially HBO with that time. Yeah, God, at that time, yeah. So all these promoters start calling and they want to sign me. So this promoter named Gary Shaw, who promoted Winky Wright, he had some, I think he had Shane Mosley. He had some good fighter, he had some really good fighters. And he uh he ended up calling Guilty Box in here and he bought me out of my contract. I think it was like they let me go for $35,000. And that's when I got started getting seen. I and I I don't think I still got no up front money from him, but my purse has got a lot better than it was. And I was fighting on TV. I was fighting on like ESPN, Showtime. And that was signing with Golden Boy, and I was signing with Gary Shaw. Gary Shaw, yeah, TSP promotion. So that is kind of where my career took off right there.

And when you talk about uh, you know, more of curiosity, like the fight. So you get two rounds, four rounds, six, eight. So they're basically are they encouraging you to go longer in the fight? Like, what if you could knock out knock somebody out in the first round?

Oh, you still get paid the same. You paid the same. So you only so if I if I was to turn you pro right now, I wouldn't put you in the eight or ten round fight. You just started. So I'm gonna start you four rounds. We'll probably do like a couple of those. After that, we'll go six, maybe do one of those, do a couple eights, and then I'll put you to ten. I see. So ten round you get paid more because you have the longer. But you get paid the same whether it goes one round or it goes to full ten rounds. God, okay, that makes sense.

Man, I can't let you pass all those legends, Ralph. So you was boxing with Oscar De La Jolla?

Oscar, if you if you think about I can't let you pass any of them up, man. If you think about that time, just that time around 147, 154, 160, there probably wasn't nobody I didn't spar. Damn. Because I was getting it just straight out of the mud. And I was going there with the, I was trying to prove myself because I was like, I was watching all these guys when I took that little, you know, two or three year hiatus and wanted to be a kid, I was watching these guys turn pro. I was watching Floyd turn pro. I was watching Fernando Vargas turn pro, Antonio Tarver. I was just watching all these guys.

Did you ever spar with Jesse Vargas?

I never sparred with Jesse Vargas. We had Jesse on the show, so shout out Jesse. Yeah, yeah. He ended up signing with Mayweather promotion, but then he ended up going to do something big. But no, I ended up, he was younger than me. So when I came up, I was watching all these guys, and I'm like, man, I'm better than these guys. And I was like, so I had to get it out of the mud. Whereas a lot of them were already fighting on TV and everything. So no.

You know, I gotta ask you, what'd you do with with De La Hoya?

How was that? It was good, man. Yeah, it was real good. It was good. I learned a lot. I think I I have a good time. I mean, you don't win every spar match. But a lot of those, a lot of those matches, I had really good days. Really good days. I spared Vernon Forrest, I fought sparred Bernard Hopkins. Damn. I had really good, really good days, and I was very coming up, going up in the gyms here and watching all those legends, you never want to take ass whoopings in the gym. So it's an ego thing, right? Yeah, it's the ego thing. I never cared if those guys sent me home. Like I would hear these stories about sparring partners going there, and you know, some of these guys were paying a thousand dollars a week, fifteen hundred dollars a week. That's good money, especially when you got a contract that you got to go ten rounds to only make $5,000. And I'm just starting off, I'm going four, six, and eight rounds. I'm like, shit. But I never cared if they sent me home if I beat their ass. I was just like, send me home. But Vargas was the one, he was like, Man, I want more rounds. He was like, I want more. And he brought me in on a Saturday because he's not supposed to sparse that. He was like, Man, I'll give you a bonus. I need this work. And I really, if you I have newspaper clippings and all that, man, but yeah, he he he was the one that put me on. And then when I see him to this day, it's all love. You got a gym here too, right? I think I met his boys, his boys fight. Yeah, I met both of his kids, yeah. I have three kids fighting, but the young one is is is really, really good. I think he signed with top rank. He's really good. They're all pretty, they're all good, but the young one is is probably he's probably gonna be a world champion very soon.

Yeah, that's good stuff. And you're so when you're um you're trying to go through this, like you know, me more curious, like how are um you're sparring all these great people, and they all have these different styles and different dynamics. Like, do you have fun when you're doing it? Like, who do you think was like the most fun person that you've sparred? Or you're like, man, that was like a really great time. Is that how it is? Sparring, no good time. Is that a good time?

Or how am I gonna say sparring is never a good time. Okay, that's yeah. My coach used to tell me when I was a kid, he, you know, I'll go in the gym, I was young, man. And he used to say that there would be a kid over there, like smiling, laughing. And he would tell me, he'd be like, Man, that kid is smiling, laughing. He don't know he's about to spar you. You can't play boxing, man. Go beat, go beat that kid's ass. So that's always been my mentality when it comes to sparring. You know, it's just no, I I took it personal going to all those camps because I never wanted, you know, you don't lose it in the fights, you lose it in the gym. Yeah, you staying too long, taking the punches. So I always tried to perform my very best, no matter who came. Oh, Panel Whitaker, I sparred him too. Damn, yeah. You made some serious legends come.

Yeah, this is why you was dealt with world champions. Yeah, dog.

Yeah, Diego Corral has sparred him too. Uh, that was my boy. But yeah, I've been in there with some of like I said, if you can think around that time, I've been in there with some of everybody.

This is like you I didn't even realize how many people you've been in there with, man. I'm getting way even more respect for you just from knowing that. I didn't have no clue. Yeah. Yeah.

Spar some good fighters, man.

Who would you so I

Sparring Mindset And All Time Greats

gotta go there then? What what's your so who's your top five then as far as boxes? Top five that whether past, present, you know, who who would you say is your top five?

Number one is Ray Robinson. So I think the game, he changed the game so much. Just so much. He was so gifted, and everything came from him. And if I was to pick somebody behind him, it would be Muhammad Ali. I think he was uh, you know, he was a a version of, he was a heavier version of Ray Robinson. And then after that, I would probably say Joe Lewis, because he did a lot for the game. And after that, man, I mean, it's so many greats. Yeah, yeah. It is just so many, man. If I had to pick somebody from this, it's hard, man, to pick somebody from this era, man. Because they're just also the I'm such an old school guy. I'm an old soul. And I watched a lot of fights back in them days. So they're my top three. Okay, that's how I'm gonna do it. Fair enough. Fair enough. Another question.

If you had to go regardless of weight class, regardless of area, regardless of time, and you had a chance to fight one person in the ring, who would it be? Ray Robinson. So you want to square up just your skills just the special. Special skills, yeah.

Yeah, Ray Robinson in any area. Any area or Chavez. Yeah, sure. I thought Chavez, uh, yeah, he was nice, man. He was nice. Yeah, he was good at a time. He he just wouldn't lose. Is that how you think? Like your thought is I want to fight the best? Like the Yeah, you wanna you wanna fight the best. I think you want to challenge yourself to be the best. When, lose, or draw. You want to just keep, you know. I was just such a throwback. So even when the money was shitty, I would just say, all right, give them to me. Yeah, because I I just always wanted to leave my legacy. The saying is get knocked down six, get up seven. You know, so I never cared. I always wanted to put my best foot forward and never be known for ducking anybody. Yeah. Well, you see where everybody can get up stars. Yeah.

What would you say? Because

Politics Records And UFC Comparisons

we've had multiple boxers on, we've had multiple MMA uh folks on. What would you say is the difference as far as like boxers? Like, I could say you didn't duck nobody, but there's obviously a business side, right? What would you say is the walk down to that, man? Do you feel like it's it's a real political game as far as people choosing who they get in the ring with because of the money side of it? Not even talking about Jake Paul and the Netflix and all that stuff, but just people trying to keep that zero on their on their record.

We miss a lot of fights because of that, a lot of great fights. Yeah. Um if I was to say this, if it's anybody that's kind of changing the game right now with that, it would probably be Devin Haney. Because he's willing to fight anybody, any place, anywhere. And he's willing to go to their backyard. He doesn't care if it's in their front lawn, he'll fight anybody. And I you have to respect them for that. And these lot of these other guys don't.

You think that's his pops? It's in his in his corner?

I think it's, yeah, he has his pops in his corner. So if I had to say that one fighter who's a throwback who says I'll fight anybody anywhere, it doesn't care if I gotta go to his backyard, front yard, I don't give a shit where it's at. I think it's him. He's he's changing he's changing the game. When it comes to UFC and boxing, UFC they do fight the best. I feel like they don't duck. No, that's not like they don't put everybody together. They don't make the money boxers make. They can survive more if they take a loss, too, because it's one guy controlling the whole thing. Whereas Dana with Dana White and everything. When it comes to boxing, you take a loss, it can be devastating, you know, because you it's hard to bounce about. So I get why guys protected different sports. I have the utmost respect for UFC. I I think people try to compare which ones tougher, which one's harder. I think they do they stay in their lane and we stay in our lane. Fair enough. I think if we go over there, they'll beat our ass. And I think if they come over here, we'll beat their ass. Yeah. It's just it's two different sports. They can do just way too much in their sport. And most of those guys over there aren't good standing up. They're not good boxers. But they're if they get you on the ground, they can kick you in your shins. It's just it's a rap, man.

Do you feel like like not so let's say like the Mayweather McGregor?

Right.

Do you think that's like fake? Like where he's he's he's carrying him to, you know what I mean, to the later rounds because you gotta pay and it's is a big ticket budget for these budgets. Do you do you feel like some of these are fake fights?

It's it's hard for me to subscribe to that, man, because you know, when a guy's in survival mode, it's hard to get him out of there. Uh it's really hard to deal with that. Even when you fight guys in the gym, it's ri spar guys in the gym, and you know you're like light years better than him. If he's in survival mode, it's hard to get him out of there. Especially you don't want to do nothing to put yourself at risk. Yeah, you know, you make a dumb move, you make a dumb dumb just rush him or something. I've seen a guy get knocked out in the Amateurs by a lesser guy, he just ran into the punch. He was trying to get the guy out of there so bad, he ran right into it and he got knocked out. So when you're a real, real fighter, you think about those kind of things, not putting yourself at risk and to be smart. I don't think like everybody thinks Anthony Joshua carried Jake Paul. I don't think he did. I just think he he got him out when he was supposed to. He he was surviving. It's hard to be the survivor, man. Especially if you just know a little bit of skill, just to have a little bit of skill. Which also your IQ is way different than uh than us. You know what I mean? Your IQ is way, way different. It's hard to be the survivor, man. Really hard to look good against a survivor, and it's hard to get them up out of there.

That's fair. That's fair, man.

Money Management Without A Safety Net

Just entrepreneurship and just ownership. Like, you spent time, you know, building your own brand. Like, what lessons have you learned about boxing that's kind of translated into maybe entrepreneurship or maybe family life or how you're raising your kids? Like, what's what's been an impact for you?

Just the hard work aspect of it, man. You know, especially as as I train my kids. And you have three three kids? Six kids, man. You got six kids? I did not know that. Okay. What ages? What the oldest is 28, the youngest is 14. Okay. So I had two football players, and my two daughters didn't play nothing, but then I have two football players who both graduated college. Congratulations, yeah. I have two that's playing soccer right now. One's in college and one's going to Gorman next year.

So that's awesome.

Busy. Yeah. I have three graduates of Gorman. The older ones graduated Gorman as well. So the family is everything. And I always tell them, be better than I was, you know. And they they're way, and I said, You guys actually, I don't care about everything I did as a boxer. They're better students than I was. They both, you know, have three, three graduates of colleges, college, they went far in their lives. And I I don't want that, I said, don't be like me. The blueprint is to be better than me. You know, you know, even in your sport, sometimes it doesn't work out, you know, when you're in these sports, like going, but you got an education out of it. That's what I told my son. He had these dreams to make it to the NFL, but he went to school, he set his school sack record, and he came home, he didn't know what to do. Like, what do I do with myself? Son, you accomplished more than most athletes ever accomplished. Yeah. Sometimes you know how hard it is to make it to the NFL. It's not like boxing. I could train you to box, and if you're just a little good, we can make some money. But when you're in that kind of sport, them organized sports, it's very hard. I'm not gonna say you can't get there. It's just a hard, hard hustle. Way 1%. Yeah, 1% make it. And you know, it's tough.

I like what you're saying about. I keep getting this in my algorithm when it talks about, you know, your father and how he looks at his kids. And he he's like the only person who wants you to be better than yourself. And I love that you're saying that, man, because your kids are being successful. Yeah, be better than me, man. Don't be nothing like me. Did they ever box? Did you ever no?

I didn't want them to because it's such a hard, it's such a hard hustle. Boxing is so hard, so many politics. Get an education, man. Get it. If they boxed, they wouldn't have gone to college. They wouldn't have, you know, go live your life, man. Boxing is really a hard hustle.

Yeah.

You know, they they went to college, they learned so much. They, you know, working. I like I said, I got two one boy playing college soccer. I got another boy coming up, going to high school. I'm like, bro, live your life. Yeah. You know, enjoy get something out of, you know, boxing ain't got no health insurance, no benefits, no pension. There's nothing. It's such a hard hustle. I know. Yeah, you retire, you retire, whatever you, if you got nothing when you came in, you get nothing when you leave. So just the part. How come they never made it like organized?

Yeah, that's what it's kidding me. They should be. Well, that's whatever sport has. I mean, shout out to Ron Johnson. I mean, what he's doing with he's trying to change a lot of that. You know what I mean?

I've heard that before. Not so many times. It's hard though. I've heard it a million times. I've, you know, I've been in the I was in the game from I turned pro, I almost had a 20-year pro career, right at 19 years, if you want to say 20 years. And I've heard that so many times. I'm gonna change. We boxers need pension, all of this. I had it on my shorts one time because some people were saying, can you put this on our church? We're trying to change something. It was called jab or something. I forgot what it stands for. I've heard it a million times. And it's not.

So you think like the Dana Whites, they ain't gonna be able to change the game?

I don't think it's gonna. They're getting money now. So that I appreciate. They're getting way more money now for these type of fights than I was getting when I was coming up. You don't have guys fighting 10 rounds making $5,000. You know, I was fighting on TV making $11,000, $10,000. That ain't no money. You got guys on fighting the kind of fights I'm fighting, making $150,000, $250,000. That's a lot of money. It is. But boxers aren't being taught how to turn that money, how to save it. And that's the hard part. You know, nobody's sitting them down like, hey man, get you an IRA account, put that money away, you know, get you an investment account, take 10,000, 15% every time you fight and just stuff it away. You know, so it's tough. And you gotta remember if basketball players make way more money than us, if they're retiring and going broke, what'd you think the boxer's gonna do? Five years, yeah, you're right. Yeah, what the boxer gonna do? Because we get all our money up front. If we fight for $250,000, that's what we get on fight night. Ain't no taxes taken out, ain't nothing taken out. They give us that check. It's your responsibility. But most boxers don't realize that. So a lot of them end up broke, man. Yeah, especially because a lot of that the tax part of it alone is.

Yeah, they come later. Crazy to them now. Like where the money at. Yeah, so really it's a to me, it's a vi it's a very physical sport, but there's no insurance for anybody.

You get health insurance fight night. Only then. So only then.

If something happens to you, so not while you're in you're in you're in camp.

No. Yeah, nothing for that. Okay, nothing. No health insurance, no pension, no benefits, no money. So you get hurt, that's shit is a wrap. You gotta have you better have some health insurance. And the way prices are now, you uh you have style. It'll be negative. Or you better have a wife and a good woman that actually put you on their insurance. But if you just out here living on your own, good luck, man.

Wow, that still doesn't change. It's still the same now, still the same. Wow.

It's never gonna change. I like you say, I've heard it before. You open it by eyes up, brother. I I did not notice. I've heard that story a million times. I'm gonna change. We got I've heard it a million times. It's just not gonna happen, man. It's not gonna happen. Why why though? Like what? It's just they don't care, man. I don't think that's that pisses me off to even know that because people putting their life on the line. Set up for us to to to not really make it. We set up to fail. There's nobody, even the promoters don't even teach their own fighters. The promoters got people to, you know, accountants and people to teach them how to save money. You would think they would use their people to say, hey man, I'm gonna sign you. Talk to this guy. If you want to use them, you can use them. If you don't want to use them, don't. But they don't even do that. Boxing is very greedy. The promoters are really greedy, man.

So what's the what's the way around? Because people are always gonna continue to keep boxing. Like, what's the way around it? Like, how do they what would you suggest to to somebody listening now that might be in that gym putting that work in?

Get yourself a good team. Get yourself a good team, get yourself somebody that can help you save your money, man. Because it doesn't, it doesn't keep coming. There's no retirement plan. So after you fight, it's over. Yeah and get yourself a good team, somebody that could tell you, hey, take this and put this. And always watch all your money. Even if you have somebody, don't give nobody that person control of your money. That's real. You just take the money and put it into the account and you have access to it, but don't give nobody access to your money. Because the people will steal your money too. So you, if you're gonna put your you want to take 10, 15% and stick it in the account, go ahead. It's better than buying a chain or something. You know, because boxing money got to last you last you after boxing. These athletes make way more money than us. And if they go on broke, what you think is gonna happen to you? Yeah, and they're getting taxes taken out of their children. In other sports. In other sports. We don't. We have to pay them at the end of the year. That's why you see so many reports of fighters on taxes, because they never they never thought about Uncle Sam at the end of the day.

Now I remember why, you know, Chase Corbin, Philly Frees me. That's my guy. So he remembered, I think that was one of our first he was talking about. He said, Man, I'm getting out of boxing as soon as I can and getting into business because of what you were just talking about. I didn't even think about that when you just say that. Yeah, it's tough, man.

It's tough. That's why I wanted none of my kids to do it. Even though I could teach them how to begin, it's just a hard, hard hustle, man. And then you're waiting for the next fight. You're waiting for the next fight. You you're always at the beckoning call of the promoters, you know, unless you're like a Canelo Alvarez or Oscar Dela Hoya or Floyd Mayweather, or one of those big names that the the public demands you. It's really hard, man. You think about it over the years. A lot of those guys that PBC had, they wasn't active. They were fighting like maybe once a year. Once every 18 months. There's no way to make a living, once every 18 months. How do you how can you survive? How can you sustain it? You can't. You can't sustain that living and only fighting one time, two times, you know, at most once time every 18 months. How can you sustain it? You can't. That's ill.

You putting a lot of realness for me. That's why I was enjoying sitting down talking with. So for you then, was the best for you with Mayweather promotions or within?

Mayweather Promotions And The Fallout

By far. By far, yeah. That's when you won. Right.

That's when I won my world title by far. I mean, me and him don't see eye to eye now. Talking about Floyd. Yeah, yeah. Okay. We're not on the speaking terms now. But I would never take away what he did for me in my career. I made history with him. 1,000 years ago. And I always give him credit for that. But I tell people, they hear I may do an interview, and you know, I tell them I will report my grievances, or I will say things I didn't like or what I don't like now, and they'd be like, man, he did so much for you. I was like, it's like being married, man. You know, you got a 20-year 20, 30-year marriage. Yeah. You find out the last year, for the past last year, two years, your wife was cheating on you. Don't say that for 22 years. I'm like, am I supposed to just be able to do that? Am I supposed to forget the the the two years she's been cheating on me for the the 18 she gave me before? No. I I'm not indebted to you for the rest of my life because you gave me 18 good years. You're cheating on me now. Shit, I don't care about the kids or nothing. You're a realist. You're cheating on me right now. So I I don't give a shit about the other 18 years. I care about the two years you've been cheating on me. And that's what I tell people about Floyd. Yeah, we did great. We made a lot of money, but I don't give a shit about that shit we did before. I care about what happened at the end. And what happened at the end just wasn't good. So no, I I'm not indebted for you for the rest of my life. I don't care. You mind me asking what happened at the end? Yeah. No, just he he just folded up, man. He stopped paying people, he stopped keeping his word. Fighters were going hungry, fighters were not active, and we all have families. And you know, he was just doing a real a lot of real sick shady shit. So everything that's going on with him now, I look at it as like karma. You know, it's karma, bro. You gotta come back and fight now. Reports of you being sued, you're broke reports of you being broke, you suing people because you're losing money. It's karma, dog. And uh, like I said, I don't have to I don't have to praise you because you did right for me in the beginning. Like I appreciate that, and I'll always give you credit for that. There's a foundation to set you up. Yeah, I will always give you credit for that. But I'm not indebted for you for the rest of my life. I don't have to praise you if you you know you do me wrong. No, I'm gonna speak on the good and I'm gonna speak on the bad. You're a man, that's right. You're a man, yeah. You're a real man's man, so you're gonna keep it 1,000. So keep 1,000 at all times. Yep.

So what's

Retirement The Itch And Netflix Boxing

next for you, man? What have you been working on since are you technically? Are you retired then? Yeah, I'm retired, man.

Okay, you mean you look like you're still in the L Rick. You know, eat right and do everything right, man. I just love being with my kids, man. Taking care of my family. That's big more than anything.

So you're still working out like crazy every day.

Not work training them. And I you hear me in the video telling my son I'm not doing none of that. Your shit is hilarious. Yeah, I'm like, You like a stand-up comedian. So I like being with, you know, being with my family, man, more than anything. Watching them succeed is my success. Yeah, I I love doing that and being at home and chilling with my family, seeing my kids prosper and get to where they my daughter had a my grandson is three now, so he's about to turn three. Me and him share the same birthday.

You a grandfather too, man.

Check you out, man. Young as hell. We're the same age, and I ain't realize. So I'm I'm happy about all that. And I got out at the right time. I have all my.

2019. Damn, it's been that okay.

Yeah, seven years, almost seven years, man. So yo, I'm good, I'm good, man. Like I said, it was a it was a good run. I I made a lot of history, made some good money. Yeah, and now I could chill. My family actually understand them, and they can understand me. Because some fighters get out, man, and you just they can't, you wouldn't even understand them when you were giving this interview, and that's sad. Yeah. And I never wanted to spend that much. And I remember my last fight, my son was it was 2000, so he was seven. And he had said, I you need to take a break. I was like, I'm gonna take a break. I was like, I didn't have it no more. I was like, I'm gonna take a break. And he he's 14 now, and I was just like, Yeah, man, you're right. It's time. It's time.

Subconsciously, man, that itches at you too, man. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Wanna come back out. I every every other month, I'm calling my advisor who helped me out in in in uh he's in New York, and I call him. I'm like, hey man, I think I can get one more.

I was about to say because you look like you still can for real.

I think I can get one more, man. Let's go, let's go get a bag. Yeah, let's go get a bag. Exhibitions, yeah. Yeah, he's like, come on, man. I'm like, I'm serious. But I don't know, man. Maybe down. She can go to Saudi. All the cats go to Saudi, Dubai, all that. Something comes up, maybe, but yeah, man, I get that itch. Um probably like once every couple months. I bet. Do you still fight that? That's super interesting. That's super exciting.

Are you still do you coach at all? As far as on the boxing side?

No, you know, I got I I see these guys at this gym and they ask me to come down, but once you get in there, man, it's hard to. Then I'm just you that smell, that bag, that speed bag, being around that man, you you it make make me come back. You get back to sparring again. Yeah, get back to sparring again, man. And this is like, I don't know, man. But I lately I have been feeling, even though I, you know, I work with I've worked with kids and I've trained a lot of kids, I have felt like, you know, I can do more with on the boxing side of training. Okay. So it has been itching at me more, so more so now than it did in the past. In the past, it was like I'm not going to the gym at all. Now I feel like, man, I wonder if I can get a kid to help him out.

Your brain is so sharp and you know all the bullshit outside and in you know what I mean? You would help a lot. That's why you would train a yeah, killer.

So I was like, man, maybe I can get somebody and help him out, man.

Yeah. That's what's up. Okay. I I did want to ask you about Netflix. How do you feel about Netflix and what they're doing, you know, as far as with the Jake Paul and things, and just it seems like they've helped the sport in a way because they put you know a lot of the flash and everything in it, but also hurt the sport in a way because of the foundation, like you said, but maybe also you said it's not regulated. So I guess I wasn't thinking about that before that.

But it's the money, man. I think Netflix pays handsomely. And at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. I mean, they're paying guys great now, you know, nowadays. And then you got more faces. You know, Netflix, everybody has Netflix. Everybody mom, yeah. Everybody has Netflix, man. So when you got fighters fighting on there and they can be seen. The problem with most boxers is they don't realize their potential outside the ring. You know, Marshawn Lynch said it best. He said, I had so much sponsorship money, I never spent none of my game checks. Boxers realize I don't need no sponsors. I'm gonna go on here and pop this and say nigga this and bitch this and I'm gonna get in trouble outside in these streets. I'm gonna be doing this and doing that. And dog, that's not smart. Be a gentleman in front of these cameras, be a role model outside of here and live off your endorsement, get some endorsements, change the game. Don't just can't just live off your fight purses, but I don't think we nobody has realized that. And they haven't really changed the game the way they should change it. Because boxers have this mentality, I'm gonna get this money and I'm gonna live how I wanna live. Yeah. I'm gonna keep speaking, man. You're gonna you're gonna end up coaching somebody, man.

I promise you. I I said it on this show first, but because we need it. We need it. Because boxing, it's always gonna be there. It's always gonna be there. But they need your brain. You know what I mean?

Because a lot of people don't tell them what they need to, you know, they tell them what they want to hear, they don't tell them what they need to hear. That's real. And that's the problem. You know, you have a lot of yes man in these camps, and and and that's the major thing. You know, you don't you gotta carry yourself a certain way as an athlete, man. I agree. And that's how you get the money, and that's how you get the fans. Yeah. You know, you can't be a knucklehead, man.

That's what I'm telling my kids because everybody's a personal brand now. Now everybody in their mom has their own social media, and it wasn't like that. You know, I'm 46 years old. I think you're what you're 47. I'll be 48 this year. So same. So when we grew up, people didn't have the camera. But now you can make so much money just being a personal brand, and they don't realize the YouTubers and all the people that are out there that you got too many hours.

They give you 10 years from now, you're cooked. Unreal. Yeah, but you don't realize it. Yeah, people don't involve with the times. Yeah you know. Blockbuster looked at Netflix and said, we not doing that. That's crazy. We're not doing that. Yeah, we're not saying we know what y'all talking about? Streaming? You're not doing that. We're gonna keep these people coming here getting these cassettes. Turn Netflix down. Now look, Blockbuster out of business. I just saw the CEO of Blockbuster's interview and I was like, God, dog, yep, Netflix. Blockbuster's out of business. Look at Netflix. Not real. People don't people don't involve with the times, man. That's the that's the you know, some people probably still listen to cassette tapes. You ain't lying.

You ain't lying, yeah, yeah.

You ain't lying.

But I could talk to you for hours. But I can I just like picking your brain, but just but leave us out like on as far as like business and life advice,

Marriage Lessons From A Fighter

man. Like, what what's one lesson that applies to everything as far as with boxing? Because it seems like because it's one-on-one. I mean, there's so many things you learn from sports that you can bring into possibly marriages when you have challenges, when you're dealing with business, when you're dealing with work, corporate world, all of that relates to me.

All right, so pertaining to marriage, I would say the hardest thing about marriage is realizing that not every day is gonna be sunshine. You're gonna have your ups and downs, you're gonna have your roller coasters. And me and my first wife, we got together like really young. Web was 18. She was in college and I was finding myself. And growing up without a dad, nobody told me that. Like, nobody told me like when you when you have financial problems, you're supposed to grow together, not to not apart. When you have struggles, you come together. And I think most people get married and they don't realize you're gonna you're gonna not agree on a lot of stuff. I agree. You may come with financial worlds. Even if you have money, you still may come with financial worlds, because like Biggie said, more money, more problems. 100%. So when you gotta ride that roller coaster together no matter what. So, and that's what I would tell people getting married today. When it comes to sports, school, I tell my kids all the time, I don't give a shit what you do. I don't care if you and I don't care if you make it to the MLS, you playing soccer, you go into school, whatever you do, put all your work into it. Put your hard work into it, give it your all, and never let nobody tell you you can and cannot do something. You know, dreams, nobody can dreams are endless. Nobody can seal your dreams, sealing cap your dreams and say you can only go this high, you can only do this, you can only do that. You can do anything, you put your mind to it. Yeah, you just gotta, and that's what I I think from boxing to life to all of that, you can do anything. But yeah, the marriage part, man, you just I tell my kids all the time, you gotta realize that there's gonna be bumps in the road. It's not gonna be sunny days all the time.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm 22 years into it, man. It's no joke, man.

Yeah, it's just tough, man. Congratulations. Yeah, I've been with my lady now. This is yeah, I'm up there about almost 18. Okay. We got married probably like a couple years ago. Okay. Yeah, but yeah Congratulations, yeah. Yeah, so it's just it's a it's a it's a challenge. Yeah, you know, especially I don't I didn't want to be divorced twice. So it's like I'm the kids watching, that's the hard part. Yeah, that's the hard part, man. And having a co-parent and doing that's tough. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's really tough having a co-parent and kids go here half the time here, half the time here, and and then watching that. And I was like, man, I don't never want to go through that again. That's real. It's the hardest thing to ever go through, is divorce. I'll encourage anybody, if you can work it out, make it work, man. Yeah. That is the when kids are involved, that is the hardest thing to ever go through in your life.

Yep. Man, I appreciate your transparency, man. Straight up. Yeah.

Favorite Vegas Restaurant Pick

So we always ask everybody about favorite restaurants. You being from Vegas, man, you gotta give us a gym, man. What's what's your favorite restaurant in Vegas?

Man, I don't know all these new ones, man. Give us a hole of the wall, then it's a whole school.

It's too many good foods.

Man, it's a lot of it's so many damn restaurants here now. I haven't even tried them all. I like mom and pop. I got a place by my house called Anna Marie's. It's really good. Shout out to Yeah, Anna Marie's. Okay. Okay. Italian spot, yeah. I know exactly where it's at. Really good. Uh a whalapie. Yep. I know exactly where it's at. Yeah, shit is really good. I like that spot, man. That is my one of my favorite spots. That's my own too. Try that out.

Nobody's mentioned. Okay, you gave us one nobody's mentioned. And I and I think I was Italian in another light, man. So I love Italian food. Yeah. So we're going to Italy for the first time, man. Come it up, and I can't wait. So that's what's up. So give us give us a spot, man. Anything that we forgot that uh that you want to leave us out on, man, that we forgot to ask you.

Loss Gratitude And Final Words

I don't know, no. I I I mean, life is is just life, man. I mean, you go through this life, and you know, some things I wish I could have dent. Like my ex my ex-wife with the kids, with you know, going back and forth to meet her. I wish I would have done so much, but I was so young. Yeah. I was trying to find myself, man. You know, us men, we make mistakes. 1000%. We make mistakes. She came to me years later. Later and was like, Man, I should have gave you more grace. Yeah. I was like, I'm with someone now. I was like, You should have done what I wanted you to do, but no, she she ended up being I out here about nine years ago. She ended up getting murdered. Oh no. It changed my whole life. Yeah, man.

Your ex-wife?

Yes.

Oh, I'm very sorry to hear that. I did not know this. Okay.

She got murdered, man. Oh, she changed my whole life. It really did because we grew up together. Yeah, that's tough. Wow. We grew up together. Just a random weird dude. Just thought she was somebody else. She was shopping, went up to her and shot her in the head. Right not too far from here. Right on the parkway and flamingo. Right there in that shopping center, right there. She was right there. That's tough. Yeah. So you gotta learn to love people while they're here. Yeah. Appreciate them while they're here. She gave me three kids. So it was some things I wish I could have done different, just so our relationship could have been better. 1000%. Yeah, yeah. But no, man. I've been through from that, from almost I told you getting robbed.

I was just real shit, yeah. Real shit.

Growing up without a dad, that's tough, man, because you learning how to be a man. You have to learn how to be a man. And I appreciate I appreciate my mother. You know, she was tough, but ain't nothing learning like being a man from a man. And I lack that growing up, bro. I like that.

You know what's ill, man. I built a relationship with TK Kirkland. I don't know if you know that comedian. That's my big brother. And it's so crazy. He's always talking about you don't become a man until you're in your like early 40s.

That is facts.

And I really believe that. That is facts. Because all the dumb stuff that you do in your 20s and 30s and stuff, like you really just the experience, like you were just saying. And then especially when I've had kids, it changes your whole perspective, man.

Right. But I would couldn't have, you know, I I accomplished a lot, but I I couldn't have did it without the women that God blessed me with in my life. Even my first wife, even though it ended.

Yeah.

I, you know, I I told my current wife, I said, you know, she blueprinted everything. Yeah. You know, you got the better version of me. But if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have got here. When I made the Hall of Fame, I, you know, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have got here. Even, you know, it's just, you know, I think every man to be successful has to have a good woman by their side. And I that's why that's what we talk about all the time. Yeah, 100%. You need some, especially if you got kids, you need somebody that's gonna hold you down. And then we go through stuff. Yeah, you get down, we doubt ourselves. You need that woman to pick you up. Yeah, in your ear. Yeah, be like, You gonna you're gonna do it. We good, you know. And I have my wife now, when I I when things wasn't going too good in my career, I wanted to go get a job. I wanted to work. She was just like, No, you're a fighter. I got this. That's why you said that. Okay, now I get it. She's like, You got this. You know, most women, especially nowadays, they'll just tell you, Yeah, get your ass out there and get a job. I ain't paying all these bills for myself. She gave me grace. Because that's your partner. Yeah, that's my partner. I returned the favor. Like when I was making money, it wasn't nothing I wouldn't get for that woman. That's what's up. I remember all that. I remember all that stuff. You know, when you go through something like a divorce, you try to do right by the women that's in your life. So that's no, I I appreciate you know being here. But yeah, man, that's yeah, I've been through a lot, man.

I can see we're gonna have to have you come back home, brother. You you very motivational, man, in a in a real way, not no BS, man. Like you could tell it's very genuine, man. Oh, yeah. And I appreciate sitting down with you, man, and being able to, we gotta build this, continue to keep building this relationship. That's cool, man. It's solid, man, with what you're doing, and specifically in Vegas, because it's expanding so much and there's so much people gotta continue to keep hearing what you've done. Right, man. Because it's it's it's helpful. It's very helpful. Yeah, that's cool, man. Uh, anytime, brother. Yeah, appreciate you, man. Solid, shout out to you. Man, what's your social handles, man? People can reach out to you.

Isha Sugarshay, I think it is on Instagram. Okay.

Isha Smith on everything else. My brother, I appreciate you, man. Vegascircle.com. Subscribe with us, man. Appreciate your time, man. Thanks, man. Thank you. That's fantastic. Damn, you fucked me up at the end, man.