From Intern to Music Executive: Mike Baro on Major Labels, Ownership & Building an Empire

Welcome And Mike’s Origin Story

Welcome to Vegas Circle Podcast with your host Packy and Chris. We are people who are passionate about business, success, and culture. And this is our platform to showcase the people in our city who are making it happen. And today we got just that, man. We got my brother Mike with us. He's actually built his career in the intersection of music, culture, and storytelling, uh, working with some of the biggest names in the industry. So we welcome in to the circle CEO and founder of Remaking, uh, Mr. Mike Barrel. Hey. Welcome, Mike, welcome. I appreciate you having me. So I'm trying to think, we we connected, was it two or three months ago, right? Since since the first time we actually jumped on the phone. Yeah, about that. Okay. So you originally from Brooklyn, New York, kind of got your your start in the music industry, right? Would you would you want to be able to talk about that? So you were VP for Universal Music Group and worked your whole resume has basically just been in music in general.

Yeah. I spent 15 years at Universal Music Group, started as intern and worked my way up, you know. But even before that, you know, I born in in New York, spent some time in PA, went to college in Pittsburgh. Okay. Uh a little time in in Philly. And out of high school, you know, I just didn't know what I wanted to do. And my mom was just like, you know what, you're good for good at computers. Why don't you go for computers? Yeah. And me, I'm like, all right, cool. Let me let me do that. Instantly hated it. I can't lie. I did an internship at um like the science center in Pittsburgh. And I was in school and I told my mom, I was like, yeah, this is not for me. And she was like, well, just finish it up, and you know, you can always transfer your credits. And that's exactly what I did. So I transferred my credits to, I went to Robert Morris University and transferred into a marketing degree, love marketing and business. And then while I was at Robert Morris um in Pittsburgh, I just kind of, you know, would just immerse myself into the scene, you know, and linked up with some DJs at you know a local club that I just used to always

Street Team Days And DIY DVDs

go to. And I said, hey, I want to get into music. Anything I could do for you, I don't care what it is. Yeah. And just started carrying their crates, to be honest. And yeah, that I mean, that's when they there were crates, you know, not to date myself a little bit.

I'm with you, brother. Everything you say, we're about the same age. So I'm I'm with you.

Yeah, yeah. So carried their crates in. And then they were eventually were just like, hey, we want to, we need to put some flyers on cars. So I was like, all right, well, I guess I'm the street team too. So started putting flyers on the windshields of cars. And then one thing led to another. I actually bought a camera, a camcorder, and I just started filming artists just in Pittsburgh. And no rhyme or reason, just started filming people, even my friends, just my crew, just whoever I was with, just started just filming. And then one day, one of my friends he was like, What are you doing with all this like footage and content? You know, I was like, I don't know. So I thought about it, and then I actually, and this is the time when like I don't know if you remember like the smack DVDs and on you know, come up DVDs and all the that's when French Montana was. So that DVD culture was huge. And I said, you know what? Why don't I make my own DVD? We used to buy them at the barbershop. Exactly.

Yep, I know what exactly you're talking about.

And then I was like, why don't I make my own DVD but make it more regionalized? So that's exactly what I did. I did uh all that footage that I had, and I put together what was called Pittsburgh's finest DVD. And at the time I was doing a little bit of uh, you know, promote club promotions with a local person that was there, and we brought making a band, uh, the band to Pittsburgh. You're talking about uh puffs? Yeah, oh okay, okay, okay. So we brought them to Pittsburgh, and I filmed that whole thing just from even picking them up from the airport, you know, the the first gig that we did with them, which was a total wash. It was nobody really came, but it was the experience to be honest. Like, you know, and also, you know, I was like the the person that was kind of like the apprentice intern of helping this dude, but more than that, because he was, you know, he didn't know how to put on shows and he was like, hey, you want to be in music, you want to do this, so help me do it. So yeah, we I did that DVD, long story short, put it into record stores and just different local lifestyle stores on consignment. And then what I did is I told every artist that I featured on the DVD, I said, Hey, if you want to be on the DVD, have 10 of your friends go and buy it. So that's how I created the demand for it. So if I had 10 artists on there and they were each telling 10 people that's at least 100 copies that I would sell, plus foot traffic, this and that, whatever, whatever. And yeah, the consignment places loved it, you know, started small, taking in, you know, two, three, then five, then ten, then twenty, kept growing from there. And then I would go home back home to New York for summer break, and then just rinse and repeat. Did the same thing, did the New York's finest DVD. At the time I was friends with uh still friends with Lumi D and and her brothers and everything like that, and you know, had her on there. Then, you know, my friend he heard about the Pittsburgh DVD and I had the band on there. He's like, yo, come uptown to the Bronx, went up to the Bronx. He was like, Yo, I gotta someone that you should talk to and shoot him. And then I go in the room. I'm like, who is it? It's Tracy Morgan. So I ended up having Tracy Morgan on the DVD, and it was wild. That was a great time.

Yeah, especially because Lumi D was killing Fire Song, yeah.

Fire song. Tracy Morgan's Tracy Morgan. Tracy Morgan. So yeah, so it just that kind of started, you know, where I wanted to really, really be in entertainment. And then I went back uh to Pittsburgh for for college, finished up my degree, and then came back to New York after I graduated with my bachelor's, and then I went back to school actually and went for audio engineering and music production. And then because at that time I was looking for jobs and there's no jobs, and I was just trying to figure it out, and I was like, all right, well, let me just go back to school. And then to be honest, too, I was getting the the check from the school year. So I was matching. I have not matched. So I was like, you know, I can get, you know, while I'm gone for you know, for another degree, I can get, you know, that check. And then I did that. And then it's that New York hustle, brother. It's that New York hustle, yeah. You figure it out, yeah. Figure it out. Yeah. And then, yeah, while I was in school, just networked with a lot of people. And then, and actually didn't mention this, but I did an internship with while I was in college in Pittsburgh the first summer

Music Internships And Universal Breakthrough

was with uh Carson Daly and John Rifkin. They had a record label called 456 Entertainment, and it was Carson Daly was an anchor for a long time, right? Yeah, I didn't realize he had his own record label. Yeah, yeah, he had it for a little while. There was you you actually know his biggest song that was signed to the label was uh you remember the song Maria Maria?

Oh yeah.

Product GM product GMB. They were signed to 456. Well, that song was signed to 456, and then it was like Ben Margera from Jackass. He was on there, and then some like obscure East European rock bands and Bam singing? Like it was it was like, yeah, it was a medley of like his friends, him being a rock star. At the time, the show was huge, huge. Yeah, and I'll never forget. Quick story about that. I remember um we had to get the master for for the the album, and Bam was just bam, he just was doing jackass stuff.

He was a wild boy. It was a wild boy.

So my boss, when I was an intern, I'm in in New York, and she's like, we can't get to him, he's not coming here, we're not going there. He lived in Philly, outside of Philly at that time. And they were like, All right, we need you to go down to Philly and grab the master for the project. I said, Excuse me. Wait, first of all, you want me to go from New York to a whole nother state to get the the album? And they're like, yes. I was like, they're like, obviously, we'll we'll give you the money, like get on, you know, however you want to do. You want to take the train down, you want to take the butt, whatever. So I get to to Pam's house and I'm coordinating with his, I can't remember if it was his uncle or his dad. I think it was actually his dad at the time, and just like, hey, I'm you know, about an hour away to it, because Philly in New York is two hours away. And so get down to his house, and I've never seen anything like it. Like the show was actually filmed at his house. So he had this huge plot of land, and he just got done testing the stunt that he wanted to do. Wow, that's when he was doing his own show, like is when he was doing his own show. Actually, you know, I think I can't even remember. He did his own show at his own. Yeah, you know what? It might have been. This was 2003, probably.

So I wonder if it's probably around that time where he spent office at his own show on MTV, I think it was. And then that was super funny.

And then I remember we I'm at his house and I'm like, all right, cool. Like, I'm here to pick up the package, just get the package. He's like, he's like, hey, sit down for a second. And I'm like, all right, I sit down, and then he's like, Yeah, I got I have to prove this last episode of Jackass. He's like, You want to watch it? And I'm like, I'm kind of like, You stuck. Yeah, you stuck is what I'm saying. I'm like, I gotta get back to New York in a whole nother state. I do want to see this episode of Jackass. And I was like, shh, I was like, obviously, you know, this is something I learned early on was artist relations, and just I was like, I'm not gonna say no and just like actually no, I gotta go get going, whatever. So I said, Yeah, sure. I got some time to to to kill. And then I can't even remember if this it's gonna sound real old, but I can't remember if there was text or whatever. I can't remember how I let my boss know, like, hey, what you doing? Yeah, I was like, I gotta stay. Yeah, I'm gonna be probably a couple hours behind or whatever. And even that, when I got back, my boss was like, Oh, you're back already? Because they already knew it was gonna be. That's how they sent you. Yeah, yeah. They were like, oh, yeah. So I'm I'm there, and it was an episode, and I could probably find it, but it was an episode. All I remember was them going to Brazil and part of the episode, and the what is that called? The the big statue. Oh, the main statue in Brazil, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I don't know I forgot the one.

The one on the the one on the mountain? Yes, yeah, yeah.

They were doing something with that, and then they came back to to the States, and they were doing a whole whole bunch of things. And long story short, I you know, I'm what 20 years old, and I'm like, you know, he's at the at that time, he's a big star. And I'm like, I'm like, man, I was like, yo, this is cool. You know, I'm seeing the episode before it came out, and yeah, long story short, came back to New York. He kept me there for a little while, and it was cool to kind of you know see how he thought. And then my bosses, they were just like, Yeah, like you did a great job. Like, we didn't think you know, you would get it over that actually over that finish line and do it that fast, and you know, you didn't get convoluted in his craziness. And then I stayed in contact, and then with uh the label ended up, you know, closing the next year when I went back to to college. But then I always kept that contact, and that's one lesson that I've always learned is just always you know keep and reach out to people. And you know, I reached out and they were like, hey, we actually unfortunately closing the label, but the owner, John Rifkin, at the time, he was like, I'm going back to Universal. He was like, I don't have anything for you right now. He was like, But just be present and come and just be around us. And that's what I did. So I went to Universal, just in the building, in the hallways when you could do that.

Now you related to Steve Rifkin?

They're brothers. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah, yeah. Him and Steve started uh SRC, Loud Records, the whole thing. And then they actually they actually brought back Loud Records for for a little while. And yeah, I was just there. And then there was an opportunity where the GM of Motown, his assistant was going on vacation and they needed a temp. And he referred me. He said, Hey, I got somebody for you, he's really great. You should just hire him for the job. So uh they hired me as a temp for three weeks. And long story short, when his assistant came back, did such a great job, he kept me on. He was like, I want to keep you on until they said, Hey, you can have two assistants. And then from there, he referred me to the head of urban and pop rock at uh Republic Records. Uh Republic Records just spun off and you know, started kind of doing their thing because I was a split from Universal Records and Motown split. And then I got my first official assistant job at Republic Records, and that's where I started my career.

Thinking Two Steps Ahead At Work

So as you're kind of navigating this a lot, that's a great, great kickoff to the story. So definitely a lot of interesting tidbits there, which is fantastic. But as you're kind of navigating this journey, right, in this corporate environment, which is a little bit abnormal, I think, in a lot of corporations in the music industry, it's very nuanced. Like you said, you could just be in different spots, do different things, be in marketing, do this. But as you're growing your career to get to this kind of more peak positions within this role, what were the biggest shifts that you think that you've navigated over those course of time? Because now you're talking about, I don't know how long you were there, but I'm assuming 10 years or so that you're at this job. But the music industry has evolved dramatically during that period of time. That was like a huge kind of mix to digital to all these different scenarios. How do you learn to pivot through that, but also continue to grow in that business and further your career to that kind of VP title that you're able to get to?

Yeah, I think there's different stages at, you know, where I kind of, you know, because when you're younger, you're not thinking, and you know, I honestly, the best and craziest advice that I got was when I started that assistant job, I think it was the second day, and you know, God rest her soul, my old boss, Elise Wright, she said to me, she said, So you're my assistant. She was like, What are you doing after this? And I was like, I don't know, going home, getting dinner, gonna probably chill out. She's like, No, what are you doing after you leave me and you're done with this job? And I was like, in my head, I'm like, this is the second day. Like, I don't know. Like, and I'm like, wait, does she not like me? She think about replacing me. I don't know what she was, but the lesson was always think two steps ahead. And you know, I told her when she actually break broke it down, I was like, oh, well, eventually, you know, I want to become a product manager and you know, take my own roster of artists and blow them up and start from the finish and that whole thing. And then she was like, and then what? And I was like, well, that's what I want to do. And she's like, Well, you always got to be thinking two steps ahead. So you're doing that to get to where. She was like, You're using my position that I gave you as my assistant to get to there, but what about what's what's after that?

It's the leverage.

It's the it's the leverage, and like, you know, an example, when I moved from New York to to LA, I took a lateral position because I saw the opportunity in it for me to grow. And it was the best decision I've ever made in my life. And a lot of people, you know, said to me, they're like, Oh, what are you doing? Like, you're literally taking a lateral position, this and that. And, you know, I think, you know, to kind of answer your question even more, I think that as uh the industry evolved, you know, you have to look at it in different phases and not be so just tunnel visioned because I've seen it, you know, I was CDs to digital downloads, digital downloads to streaming, streaming to what we are now, which is going back to D to C, you know, direct-to-consumer selling to your fans. So I think that I look at also other industries. You know, I look at what the video game industry is doing, I look at what tech is doing, and if they do a cool campaign that I see on TV or on the internet, I say, hmm, how can I do that within what with I'm doing, whether that's music, uh, film, TV, whatever it is. You know, so I think kind of taking from different industries and making your own is is very important because if you get stuck in the old way of doing it, you're gonna get lost because technology is growing and AI isn't what it was two years ago, and it's not what it's gonna be in two years. So if you even uh still have that same mindset now of oh, this is uh Chat GBT, this is Claude, this is whatever, you can get lost because I from for one, I don't use just one AI for everything. Sometimes I use Gemini for something I know it could do better than that. I use Claude for something I knew it could do better. But if I'm just stuck on like, oh no, chat GBT is the the one all be all, then I'm gonna get lost. Yeah.

So I think things are moving so fast, like you know, going back to your point of it's interesting because like nowadays, you know, I ask like I asked a lot of people from the show, like, do you use interns? He's like, no, these none of these kids want to do anything to learn because they wouldn't get paid for the internship, not for the experience. But I was similar to yourself. I I went and did an internship at Tufts Medical, and I I knew I wasn't built for it, I wanted to go into orthopedics, but having that three-year experience of learning and being involved changed my whole perspective on my life. But you doing it, learning the knowledge and then getting asked those questions was probably huge for you. Yeah. What do you think is the biggest lesson that you've you've learned other than being two steps ahead, like you learned from one of the ladies?

Biggest lesson early on for sure. I was I was an assistant for a long time. Okay, and there wasn't an opportunity. It was two things. There wasn't an opportunity, I guess two or three things. So there wasn't an opportunity for me to move up, and also I didn't my job too good, where there was a couple of my bosses did not want me to move up.

You hear that a lot in the corporate space, yeah.

And then there was a lot of changeover because of technology was changing things, you know, and I think I was in a an era that wasn't like any other in music. You hear of different people with their stories, like the the generation before me was all about money. We had all the money in the world where assistants were getting fur coats and we were taking trips and we were doing this, and then that stopped. I was in an era where it changed so much. We had a little bit of the tail end money, but we didn't really have the money like the generation before us. But then you look at it now, my generation compared to the generation now, we had a lot of money. You know, so it's like it's all perspective, but I think that you know, just you know, one of the things that I learned is is definitely just uh don't be afraid to see or don't compare yourself to other people in their journeys because if you don't see what's right in front of you, then you're never you're never gonna excel. Because like I said, I was an assistant for for four years, and typically within the music industry, you're looking at like two, two and a half, but I was four, but then I had the a crazy solid foundation where I had relationships. I I knew everybody at the label when I was there from the very beginning, so it was nothing for me to go into the CEO's office and you know just shoot the shit with him. Um sorry, I don't know if I'm gonna do it. Yeah, you're good, you're good, you know, just you know, uh kick it with him, and you know, I'm having dinner, having, you know, with the SVP of radio, and we're going out, you know, because I had that foundation. And, you know, where some people they might think were, well, I have to do this in two years because I have to become a manager and then have to become a director, have to become VP, have to become, you know, all these different things. Where I wouldn't say I was complacent because I definitely wasn't. I was making it known, hey, I want to move up, but I knew that when I would see other people rise too quickly and the way that they were rising wasn't the right way to rise.

Now they're not definitely a timing thing for you too, right? It's just being being an expert in what you were doing. Absolutely. And adding value what you were doing.

Absolutely, because it was a thousand percent timing because once things kind of got more settled, because the label also, too, was was pretty new. Republic at the time was a newer label, you know, started by, you know, Avery and Monty Littman, and they were finding their footing, you know, in different things, and they were finding their top executives to bring in, and you know, they had to cycle through some and they had to find some, and you know, and me being the the the assistant, I'm not going anywhere until they find sure they get who they are. Yeah, exactly. Until the C-suite is is you know is settled,

Local Marketing Campaigns With Artists

you know.

So but when did you start working with like Drake and Mary J. Blige and Lil Yachty and all these? Were they under the same label or were they under another label?

No, so at Republic was was Drake, okay, um, Nicki Minaj, early Taylor Swift.

Was Baby involved in that or that was later?

No, no, baby was yeah, because so I did I did all the cash money stuff. Ah, okay. I was trying to I was trying to put together I couldn't. All the the the cash money young money stuff because cash money, young money was under Republic.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's what I was doing. It was under Republic.

Okay, got it. Um so so yeah, all the the the cash money stuff. Got it. Um you had like Big Machine, and you know, uh Taylor Swift was under, you know, that we had I was there from with the weekend from the very beginning. Uh Post Malone. Big names. Yeah, I mean it goes Jonas Brothers, I've worked Demi Lovato, Martin Garrix, a bunch of people. And then once I got promoted from being an assistant, I was a marketing regional. And basically my job was to it was it was actually one of the the most fun jobs I've had in my career.

It had to be working with all these creative people, and you're a creative guy.

So yeah, and it was literally my job was when I first started, I was just northeast in Midwest. Then I got promoted. Then I did all of the East Coast and then half the country. But basically, my job was to go to different cities with the artists, set up marketing initiatives that were localized. So say here we're here in Vegas, and you know, we talked about this, you know, uh feature. Yeah. So say like I would connect Shout out to EJ and AJ.

Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, I would connect with like a feature and be like, hey, a new Jordan is coming out. Can we pair that with a release of Drake's song? Or can we, you know, do something with whoever the artist is, or a local restaurant chain. It could be a barbecue place, and I could say, hey, and I actually did this with it was actually a Mexican restaurant in Nashville, I think it was. Okay. One of uh, I don't know if you guys know who James Bay is. He's a singer-songwriter, and I created the uh James Bay Rito, and it was around hilarious.

I'm trying to think of, I'm thinking James K. Was there a James K to artist? I don't know. I know I know the name I'm trying to think of anyway. Keep going. I'll go on the book.

But like stuff like that, where it was a Mexican chain that, you know, had I think maybe 15 to 25 Mexican restaurants in you know that market. And then we set up signage. You know, I've done, you know, Baked by Melissa cupcakes, really good friend of mine, Melissa and Ben. Shout out to them. Uh, we did stuff with Jesse J was my artist from the very beginning, and we did custom, you know, cupcakes, you know, for one of her releases. I forget what the name of the song was, but tied that into that, you know. But even, you know, Lil' Yachty, I've done, you know, we did pizza where we took over pizza shops and around the tour, and his favorite food at the time, he ate pizza every day.

Oh, wow.

And we were just like, how do we take advantage of Yachty eating pizza every day? So we created pizza merch and we served it in custom pizza boxes and the best pizza chains in each city from LA to New York. And I remember in New York, it got crazy. We we announced the the merch drop and we gave out pizzas and everything like that. The police came, shut us down. There was there were thousands of kids on the streets waiting for us. So it was it, that was basically my job as a regional was to create those localized campaigns that was a part of the bigger campaign for the artists. And then also that was around the tours, could be around whatever it is that that they were doing, that they were either in market or not in market. And then, and then yeah, from there I got promoted to product manager, where I was now not reporting to the the product manager as a regional. I controlled the whole campaign of the artists from A to Z. And that was capital moving me from New York to LA, giving me that promotion, which was a sideways move for me, title-wise, but I understood that this was a huge opportunity for me, A, to leave New York because you know, I was from New York, I walk into rooms, I knew the whole room, and I was like, I need a new network. So challenged myself, went to LA, and then yeah, started working. And the first artist that I got from A to Z was Lil' Yachty. That's pretty awesome.

You know, it kind of you talk a little bit about the change of the dynamic from going back to direct to consumer, you know, uh back from being, you know, DVD and all these different types of avenues to kind of hear music nowadays. But it seems to me like at that point in time, there was a lot more investment in developing a lot of these artists, putting the activating them and you know, really building them up from talent to execution. And I feel like nowadays the entertainment music industry has shifted a bit more where it's you already have the the views. I'm just gonna buy your catalog now. You're already activated. So there's less of this like development of

Streaming Shift And Direct To Fan

artists, right? It used to be a lot different. Are you seeing that same shift? And is that something that you continue to see going downwards? And like, how does that impact? Because to me, it's almost like the record labels may not be as invested in the artists as maybe they were before. Now I just want to buy somebody who already has views.

Yeah, I mean, the the industry changed, and part of that change was streaming. And you know, you you look at streaming, you know, if you just have to look at the numbers at the end of the day, a third of a penny, you know, is not gonna pay the artist. Now, I won't get into the weeds of you know everything and of who sees that money from the labels, you know, the labels they do own a piece of the Spotify, and but and that was a big argument with Taylor Swift, which is kind of like hey, I'm signed to you as a label, and you wouldn't be making money if it wasn't for me. You own a piece of this company that is a music streaming platform because of partly me. So you shouldn't just pay me the royalty for my music being on platform. I should share in the actual revenue from you being a platform that you kick back to the labels.

That's real.

So you know, it's it's a it's a circle, to be honest. Like, you know, uh, and that's why the the industry, you know, has shifted a lot to D2C, where a lot of you know artists now are like, hey, I could do this myself.

Well, they were also getting robbed too. That was the part that they would just get robbed nonstop through these labels and what is the benefit of a label nowadays?

I mean, curiosity, like I mean, to be honest, and like you know, my whole career has been labels. There is a benefit. I mean, and the industry changes, you know, back then the label provided money, you know, because these these artists and the capital, yeah. Yeah, they're they're they wouldn't be who they were if it wasn't for the labels. There's an opportunity. It's a magical machine. Yeah, there's like you wouldn't believe there's someone at the label for every little thing, for good or bad. You know, if you want to have your your if you're like, hey, I want to get my my song on Spotify, okay. Well, there's a process for that. There's an immense amount of people that get involved on just that one aspect. You know, there's on I'm just talking on the label side, not even Spotify. You know, there's a sales team, they deal with that, sales and streaming team. So then who do you have to deal with? All right, what genre is it? So then you have a team that's just for hip-hop, just for pop, just for rock.

The reach. They reaches. Yeah.

And then from there, you have someone that deals with the marketing, you have someone that deals with the the playlists, the editors, the, you know, all right, what what tier of artists? What tier of playlists are you gonna be in? You know, are you going for New Music Fridays? Are you going, you know, there because there's real estate within these playlists, because every label is trying to get their artists on there. So if you have a playlist that holds, I'm just saying, 60 songs, and you divide, and there's three major labels, Sony, Warner, and Universal, that means Universal is gonna hold 20, 20, 20, but then you have labels under each one of those that are competing for the same playlist internally. So in Universal, you have Def Jam, you have Republic, you have Interscope, you have Geffen, you have all these labels. So it's it's hard, you know. So it's like unless you have someone that has the relationships internally and they deal with these people every day. So it's it's a lot of the the relationships, it's a lot of the the footwork that gets done by if your job is literally to inspect the screw, you're gonna notice right away when there's one little blemish versus if I don't do this, I'm like, yeah, this looks good. But and you're like, no, no, no, it's not good. So you have someone literally for every step of the way, and that's where you know things get done, and you know, artists you know don't realize that yes, the labels then had a different purpose, now shift to to what's happening now. A lot of you know, artists are building up their communities.

You know, it's like but they're investing, they're spending a lot of money, there's a lot of capital to build up these communities too.

Yeah, so it's like you know, if I if I have 10,000 dedicated fans that'll pay five hundred dollars each for for my my album, I'll take that over me signing to a label and getting a third of a penny, and I'm only you know, selling a million, you know, or I'm only streaming a million, you know, of my album on Spotify. That's a big difference.

I respect you know Ryan Lewis. I'm sorry, Ryan Leslie. Leslie, yeah, yeah. Amazing what he did back in the day. And yeah, you know, Nipsey and a lot of these other players have set that whole standard.

What he did international, you made more money selling yeah 3,000 tickets, 4,000 tickets versus being on a label.

Exactly. Because he's keeping everything. Yeah, and LaRussell right now, he's he's the poster, you know, artist for you know, places like even and you know, you know, Patreon trying to get in, you know, the game and do, you know, direct to consumer. So there's a lot of platforms now where it's like you don't have to start your communities in a WhatsApp group. You know, I know artists that do that, you know, or Telegram, Discord, wherever you wherever you feel like your audience is, start it there. And that doesn't even go for music, that goes from anyone in general, because the the landscape has shifted. You know, we are our own marketing brands, we are our own brand.

So we have to do it in that way. Yeah,

Moving Into Film TV And Producing

I agree. When did you shift from going from the music industry into the movie and producing industry? When did that shift happen?

So at this time, Capital moved me out to LA. Okay. I did two years at Warner. My mentor, he left uh Def Jam and he was like, Hey, you know, come over here. I love what you because at that time I was doing Migos. He was like, I love what you were doing with the Migos project, and you know, we killed it, and we were actually, I saw him coming back from New York to LA and we just got done doing SNL, and he was like, Come in, let's just have lunch. And I was like, all right, cool. Had lunch with him, went to ended up at Warner, did two years at Warner, and then funny enough, two years later, I'm at home in LA, and I'll never forget it was a Saturday morning, and I see a post from my old boss at Capitol, and it was like looking for you know, hiring at Capitol or something like that, and then forward her the post, and then I did the eye emoji and like laughing emoji. And then she was like, wait, she was like, Would you ever come back? And I was like, No, no, no. I was like, it was a joke. I was like, I'm I'm cool, I'm just joking. And then she was like, No, no, no, we actually we have a new CEO that's coming. Let me put you in contact with him, and you guys should talk. Long story short, I went back over to Capitol the second time, uh made me a great offer and saw the opportunity to build with you know what was happening there. And then after a while, I was working, working, working. And at this time I've been in the industry for probably 16 years, and I was like, man, I need a new challenge. And because it was just kind of like autopilot for me, and living in LA, what other industry to get into?

In your backyard, yeah.

And I was literally living in Hollywood, I was like, let me get into film and TV. So I'm gonna start producing some projects that you know basically was either like funding or just just simple stuff. And I remember I did this one project, it was a movie with we had Anthony Hamilton, RB singer? Okay, yeah. Yep, Anthony Hamilton and some other people I can't remember. And I was like, oh, this is cool. I was like, it wasn't too crazy. I'm used to the music industry where everything's fast-paced, chaotic, this, that, and you know, film and TV moves a lot slower. So I was like, all right, let me let me try to do another one. So the distributor of that movie that we did, it was called First Day Out. Um I was like, uh, let me um let me talk to her and see if she has anything else. She was like, I don't have anything at the time, but I'll keep you in mind for for new things that are coming. She hits me up probably like six months later. She was like, Hey, you still thinking about you want to try to do some more things in film and TV? I said, Yeah, of course, let's do it. So she brought some other movies to me, learned the the ins and outs and the ropes, you know, got burned sometimes, and you know, you know, and don't don't get don't be afraid to get burned, you know. But the most important thing is to learn, you know, to not make that mistake again.

Yeah.

So, but I learned and you know, did more and more things from there. And then it led me, I left Capitol about three years ago, started my own company, and I was like, you know what?

That's the the remaking. Remaking, yeah.

Started remaking, and I was like, you know what? I want to figure out a TV show. I was like, I don't know what it is, but let me think about it. And one side of my company is filming TV, the other side is music, and you know, manage artists, consult for artists, help them roll out their projects. And then somebody said to me, was like, yo, you're you're a foodie, because I'm I'm a huge foodie. You speak in my language, yeah, yeah. Huge foodie, yeah, and known as the music executive. And I was like, why don't I just fuse those two worlds together? So I came up with a show called Word of Mouth, and it's basically like F That's Delicious meets Anthony Bourdain meets Tiny Desk. And every episode features a different music artist, and it was the first season was all artists out of fire because I love all of those tiny desks, and all the ones you're talking about. I love it. So the first season was all of my artists from like Warner. Where can you actually watch the show? Can you get it on YouTube or no? So this is actually a streaming no streaming platform. Uh we're actually about to release it in a couple months. Okay. So yeah, yeah. So it's every episode different music artists. Okay.

Oh, you haven't even came out with this yet. No, it hasn't come up with it. Oh, okay, okay. I'm sorry I missed that.

Okay. Yeah, so every episode, different music artists. We go to food restaurants, we talk to the owners, hear their life story. It pairs with the artists and their heritage, culture, whatever their life journey is. We've done, and then we do lifestyle activities on the show. We've done a fashion house, we did uh gold mine, did uh you mind sharing who some of the artists were? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We we have Sky, who's an artist that was assigned to Warner. I have Willow Kogu, who's one of my artists, Afrobeats artists. I have Joseph Black, that was my artist at Capital. I have Stocks, who's a really good friend of mine. He's big in the uh Crypto Web 3 artist space. And, you know, we we and some others, and we literally we we visited all these places. We didn't we did a psychedelic mushroom grow place where Joseph Black, he actually battled addiction issues, and now he uses shrooms as a way to curve his you know his urges for harder drugs. So they showed us from start to finish how they grow the shrooms, harvest the shrooms, make gummies, chocolates. Then we talked about the education of shrooms and everything like that. That's an interesting take.

Yeah, that's a very interesting take.

And then at the end of the episode, the artist performs kind of tiny desk style in front of the marquees of the restaurant. That's fine. I'm looking forward to that coming out.

Well, you're in a Mecca in New York of music, you're in a Mecca video in Los Angeles, and then so what made you want to build this in Las Vegas?

Choosing Vegas And Betting Early

You know, I know everybody talks about the future entertainment industry of Las Vegas, but we haven't really got there yet. So what made you want to make the shift now to come over to Vegas to build this platform?

To be honest, it was by accident. Yeah, it literally, I was on my way and I was moving, had all the plans, told everybody that I was moving to Miami, Fort Lauderdale area. And then a friend of mine said, Hey, he was like, Man, you got to check out Vegas. He was uh this was probably two Thanksgivings ago. He said, Come to because it was I didn't go back east for for Thanksgiving that year, and he was like, just drive to Vegas, come stay with me and my wife, just check it out. He was like, Don't do anything the strip, just I'll show you the local side of everything. So I was like, all right, cool. What I what do I have to lose? So I came to Vegas, and I've been to Vegas a thousand times before then. Always a strip, and no Vegas, like the back of my hand, so to speak. So I thought, you know, and then once I started doing you know the local stuff, and I think I was here maybe four four days, and my my rule previous to that was three days tops in Vegas was too much, get me out. Yeah, so I was like, I spent like four or five days to like really try to, you know, get to and I didn't do anything to strip that time, and I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. You know what? I'm gonna do six months before I move to Miami. And so the following year, because it it was November, that was Thanksgiving, I moved out here the end of April, early May. And then I was like, all right, I'm gonna do six months. That six months turned into a year, and then now we're sending a little over a year, year and three months. And to answer your question, I saw the opportunity for everything that was coming in Vegas. And you know, we've talked about this.

Of course, yeah.

And I I noticed from the NBA to MLB to, you know, all the entertainment to, you know, tech that's you know trying to make a breakthrough here, health and wellness, you know, everything. And the thing that I loved about Vegas was from the outside, you look at Vegas as a huge city if you don't live here. And then you get here and you're like, it's a small town. Everybody knows everybody, everybody knows each other. And I would start going to different events and I would see the same faces, people are talking about the same people, and then the thing that really attracted me is that I wanted to be ahead of the curve before everything came here. So I started, you know, doing film and TV, and you know, the when I moved here, the film and TV bill was supposed to be passed, it got shut down. Yep, and then now it's going on the ballot for you know next year. And then people said, Oh, are you gonna leave now that it it got shut down? I said, No, that just means that I'm just gonna have to wait another year and a half for it. Do you think it's gonna happen? I do. I I think eventually it's gonna happen. And there's various reasons why you know it got you know, you know, taken off, but you know, it eventually is gonna happen.

Yeah, you know, and I would want it, they want it, so it's gonna be.

It makes too much, it makes too much sense. Yeah, and the taxes, everything that's out here, I mean, it's just a lot of people. That's another reason why I came out here. How does it work?

Coming from LA, it's just like, whoa, I'm getting killed. And like, yeah, and I couldn't believe when I when I made that that trip and I did all the local things, I couldn't believe how cheap it was relative. Obviously, you know, because for me, I come from New York and then LA. And when I moved from New York to LA, I was like, whoa. I was like, LA is cheap because I was coming from New York and then I left LA and I'm like, whoa, Vegas is cheap, you know, comparative to LA. Yeah, that's very good.

So now it's getting expensive as hell.

Now can everybody cover real quick? Exactly. It's true, yeah. So I just saw the opportunity and I want to be ahead of everything. And I love how Vegas has, you know, true, truly has open arms. And you know, people have come to me and said, hey, what do you need help with? You're building things here, you know, how can I be a part of it? And I think that it's it's important because like there's a mentality here that people, it's a service-based city. So people the hospitality is, you know, you talk about southern hospitality. Well, Vegas needs to come up with a slogan for Vegas hospitality, you know, because it's global.

It's global, it's looked at global. Exactly.

And that's the thing, like there's so many global things that are happening here, and people coming in, you know, from Saudis to everywhere.

It's like you and I, when our first conversation we had over the phone, you were mentioning like, you know, who are kind of the players here. It's not just even the play, there's so many good people here once you shuffle through all the and the plastic that I was telling you about, right? But once you get through and you see who the really solid people are, there's some very I mean there's good people everywhere, but there's some really good people here in Vegas, but we just don't get that that shine. You know what I mean? Absolutely. But do you feel like Vegas could be a legitimate film city?

Yeah, I mean, I think that the the film is is moving away from the traditional New York LA, and LA obviously is having its issues just with you know, Hollywood and just the couple weeks ago, Paramount threatened to leave Hollywood and move to Texas and or Tennessee. They're you know, deciding, you know, that whole thing. And it's just like it's a ripple effect, you know, that's happening in LA, unfortunately. And uh, I think that these cities like Vegas, you know, or states, I should even say, like, you know, Nevada to Illinois to New Mexico, they're attracting a lot of people with these tax incentives that are like, hey, you know, I have a movie right now that we're shooting in Chicago, and Chicago is like, you know, Illinois is like, hey, 40, 40% off if you just shoot here and you hire locally, you know. So you mind sharing who you're shooting at with? Can you share who clues are? You know, I'll say we got we have some some A-listers that are there involved in the movie. Yeah, shout out to Chicago. It's gonna be a great movie. Um, we got some A-listers that are involved with that movie. Okay. And it's gonna be it's gonna be a banger. It's gonna be a banger. We're excited to see it. Yeah.

What do you plan on working on here in Vegas? Would you be able to share a little bit of other than the what you were just bringing out about the tiny that kind of that breakdown? But would you be able to share what you're working on here?

Yeah, yeah.

Building A Docuseries Off The Strip

So my next project, and it's funny because when I first moved here, I was just talking to friends, you know, talking to my friend Tony, and he was telling me about, you know, the He's a you know old promoter from Vegas. He's telling me the old promoter stories and when he used to do stuff with Mike Tyson here, and then you know, talking to other friends, and you know, they were telling me the dark side of Vegas and telling me about the homeless people that live in the tunnels, and then you know, someone's a Rob Bank Harvard. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And then people just telling me all these different stories that I didn't know, you know, even from obviously, you know, the mob presence, you know, that the Vegas has, but me being an outsider, people telling me about the Mormons. And I was like, Oh, they run Vegas? People like, yes, you know, so it's different things that I didn't know until I moved here.

Vegas does a good job of protecting his reputation on a national scale. All this stuff kind of is.

You know what's behind the curtain when she starts seeing what's behind the curtain. Exactly. And that and that's what I wanted to peel back the curtain. And I said, you know what? I think I want to uh work on a story that tells everything about Vegas off the strip. I don't want anything off on the strip. I want to tell stories of Vegas, the people that make up Vegas. I don't care if you're the maid at the aria, what is your life like when you leave the aria and you go home? What places do you eat at? What is your family life like? You know, all of those type of things that make up the fabric of Vegas. So I'm working on a five-part docuseries. Um, it's called So I Went Looking in Vegas, and it's from the the perception of not me forming an opinion, because also I'm an outsider, you know, I'm not from here. So I don't want to Vegas to feel like I'm taking. I want to show what Vegas is all about that people don't get to see. So we've, you know, we've interviewed ex-mobsters already. You know, we we were we're already shooting now. We did a segment with a guy who's an Area 51 specialist. We went out to Area 51 last week. That was crazy. I can't even lie. Yeah, I had a heart drop moment, you know. Uh, I thought you think you were coming back. Yeah. Yeah, you guys gotta watch to see what happens on that episode. We've done, you know, the Boys and Girls Club, we've done the Harrison House, which is a famous house here that where the black performers back in the day, you know, around you know, Sammy Davis Jr.'s time, they couldn't stay on the strip. So this house was kind of like the Airbnb slash hotel for for black performers to stay, and it became the house where even like the Frank Sinatras of the world were hearing that story historical website. Shout out to that. We we filmed that house, and that was amazing. Connected, you know, with NLV, UNLV historians to do some things. We we've done a lot, you know, and you know, thanks to you, Pocky, we're going down into the tunnels with Shine a Light and Rob and all that. So I say that to say, you know, I want to show everything that makes up Vegas and just give that really roundabout, you know, kind of picture of it because, you know, people, their perception is the hangover. Yeah. And there's a lot more to Vegas than just the hangover.

I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing it. It's solid.

And I mean, honestly, that's why Chris and I, we we started this, is because of that. It's just so many creative people like yourself that want to showcase the really cool people that are making it happen. And it's really awesome. Good to get that platform. When do you expect that to come out? When is this series going on?

So I want to make a series. I want to rap shooting this year, but I really want to take time to get everyone's story. So if there's anyone out there that has a story, like I said, not too big, not too small, you know, I don't care who it is, you know, I want all perspectives, you know, from the good and bad, you know. And, you know, it could be, like I said, the mate at the aria, it could be the plumber that's down the street. I want all, you know, stories. So I'm gonna take the rest of the year to to finish filming just to get make sure that I have it right, you know. I could I could probably be done already with the amount of footage that I have, but I want to make sure there's certain parts that are are missing and integral that I want to, you know, get. And then I think that you know, my plan is gonna be to do like a local Vegas film festival kind of circuit with it. Okay, and then I'm gonna go straight to streaming. Awesome. And we're gonna put on streaming networks.

That'd be awesome. I'm looking forward to seeing it. But I love Vegas history, yeah.

Yeah, good stuff, man.

Network As Net Worth

Just business and life advice just finishing up. What's what's one nugget you can give to somebody, man? You're such a creative guy, you've gone through internships, you've done a lot of these things. What's one one nugget you can leave one of our listeners on?

My biggest thing for me was my network was my net worth. I agree with you. And not even talking in dollar terms. It just for me, you know, and there's a difference of being out all the time, just to be out. That's not you're just partying. Yeah, exactly. That's not, you know, yeah, don't get me wrong when I was younger, yeah. For sure. Yeah. But it's, you know, now I'm very intentional. But then, you know, I I'm making sure that, you know, and to be honest, this this Vegas docuseries that I'm working on was an intentional way for me to get into Vegas and to meet the people that I need to meet, because I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the Vegas stock. Because I reached out to Yeah, we connected online because of this, yeah. Connected online because it's funny, someone sent me a video clip of something about Vegas, and they were like, and it was someone that was prior guest on the show, and he mentioned something about Vegas, and someone sent him in my DMs and was like, Oh, did you hear what he said? You should check that out. That'd be cool to show in your docuseries. And I was like, Yeah, let me research that. And I was like, Well, what what podcast was he on? Yeah, and then I was like, all right, let me reach out to them. Yeah, and then that's how it and it happened.

We had a lot of great people have great stories, that'd be perfect for your documentaries. Yeah, yeah.

Like I said, I want to keep repeating my, but there's so many cool people here, man. Yeah, and it's such a global, you know, like Philip Ziadi talked about is you gotta look at this in a global perspective because somebody's always gonna come here because it's a it's also tourists, you know, tourist capital. So but I like that you said of your currency because I I you know, for us, like I'm a networker. I mean, that's my biggest thing is yeah, building those relationships. And I don't know if you listen to Jesse Itza, I got a chance to meet him. I don't know if you know who Jesse It's. No, I don't. He owns like Atlanta Hawks, his wife called the Spanks and things like that. But he always had talked about building relationships, but not the fake relationships. Yeah, you know, just continuing to build with them and see how you can help them connect those dots. Absolutely. Once you figure that out, it's it's huge for you. And I'm terrible at that, so that's why I do this podcast. Yeah, I can bring all the guests to me so I can network.

So I don't have to go out of my house. I mean reach it, but no, but I get it though.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, being very strategic and like, you know, I I I look at certain rooms where people they'll go into a room and they just start serial networking and they'll talk to every single person in the room. And I'm like, yeah, that's cool. You know, you know, there's gotta be a reason. There's gotta be a reason why. And it's like, you know, also it's like I want to make sure that using my time wisely and efficiently, I agree. So like if I'm talking to someone that is having a valuable conversation in that room, I might not talk to anybody the whole rest of the night because I want to make sure that I give that person my undivided attention. And especially if it's a room that I know I'm gonna be in again, that I'm gonna see some of those familiar faces. So I I I I think that networking, you know, everyone talks about it, but I think it's very, very underrated on especially the newer generation because they're so used to their phones and they they they meet each other online and the communication. And I remember like even that was a big issue with us in the music industry when the uh pandemic came. You know, we dealt we signed all these artists that were bedroom artists because we had no one was outside. And then once the pandemic lifted, you had all these brand new artists that couldn't perform. They couldn't do anything, they couldn't do interviews because they were just used to being in the bedroom, and then we had to go into crazy media training mode, crazy artist development, you know, and it kind of pushed the labels to get back into that. But it's it's a thing where you know it's it's very important to it.

I agree, I agree.

Favorite Vegas Eats

My last question for you about food, man. We always ask somebody what's your favorite restaurant so far in Vegas since you've been here a little over a year?

Oh man, there's a lot, and there's a lot that I'm searching for too. Okay. One of my favorites is well, I'll start. I'm not a big dessert person. Okay, but urban matcha, the uh the matcha sauce. Yeah, rainbow. Is that on a rainbow? Oh, rainbow.

Is that one from my Frugal Burger? Uh yeah, yep, yep, yeah, yes. Yep, yes. Oh, yeah, that's fantastic. That yeah, that's matcha soft serve. I've not been there yet.

Crazy. Urban matcha. Urban matcha, okay. Soft serve, crazy. Okay. I'm trying to think, you know, because also I'm uh, and you'll see when you know when my show comes out, it's I'm very like hole in the wall type of spot. There was a Haitian restaurant that I went to in a uh ghost kitchen. I can't remember the name of it here in Vegas.

I would definitely check that out. You'll have to text me for that. Yeah, I'll text you on that.

Okay, that was super dope. I actually just I was on TikTok earlier today, and me being from New York, I was like, I need New York Chinese food. And here everyone says, you know, China Mama, which is you know, it's good. But there is uh I can't remember the name, but there was a New York Chinese spot that I just added to my list. Can you send that too?

Because I've not found no good East Coast Chinese food. Except China Mama's the only one I've actually really enjoyed. China Mama's probably the only one.

Oh, SK. I'm sorry, S. There's a spot called SK on uh in Spring Mountain this fire. Oh, okay. I'll try that out. It's a little hole in the wall spot. Okay, okay.

Am I saying it right?

I might even be saying it wrong. I apologize, but it's it's it's it's I know it's a red label this time.

Okay, okay. So I'm trying to think, you know, I've had some I had a lot of great food here, which is is is a good thing. You know, I actually just went to the steakhouse in Durango a few weeks ago. That was really good.

Yeah. Uh oh no, I'm sorry, Nico. Nico thinking I'm Red Rock. My bad. Apologies. Yeah.

That that was really good. So, you know, for me, I'm I'm literally that is, you know, because I'm a foodian of a food show, that has actually been my mission, is just to find stuff as much as possible. I have a whole Vegas list and even like the the big stuff I haven't done yet. It's been this is actually gonna be food mecca. It's the food mecha, yeah. It's the food mecca in this spot that I haven't been to. People are like, What? You still haven't been? The wind buffet. Oh, yeah. I still have not been to the wind buffet. I prefer Caesars to be really both both are really good, but I think Caesars actually might be better.

I think you're paying, you you're paying top down for the buffet, which is which is interesting.

Win is really good, but I think I if I had to put my money on it, I'd probably go to the Caesars. Yeah, I've been in years, but everybody's not everybody specifically.

I'm gonna do both.

And and I'm happy you're doing it because uh we're getting we get in that I feel like we're becoming the food mecca, and I feel like we are globally looked at as one of the best places to eat. Yeah. So I love that you're doing that,

Social Handles And Farewell

man. What's people that give us your social handles, man? People can reach out to you, man. We appreciate sitting down with you, man.

Yeah, of course. Everything Mike B in the city, that's just M-I-K-E, letter B, I N T H E City. Okay.

Keep checking this brother out, man. Very talented, got a great network, and looking forward to seeing your projects that you got coming out, especially on Vegas. And I'm in that one too. We actually have, so I appreciate you. Absolutely. But check us out, the VegasCircot.com, and I appreciate your time, brother. Thank you.

I appreciate you guys. Definitely.